Animatronics

* NEW FORUM *

mdenton — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:11:30 GMT

I have just started a new micromagic systems forum here: http://www.hexapodrobot.com/forum/index.php

This forum will be much easier to use and will cover a much broader range of topics. From now on please post to the new forum :)

Many thanks, M@

Re: Monster Mash

Demmo — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:29:17 GMT

ok, I can`t wait to see it :)

chhers,

Demmo

Re: Monster Mash

mdenton — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:53:15 GMT

Hi Demmo,

I think the interview was for Movies 24, and I should get an email with details of where and when it will be broadcast. I wil post here once I know.

cheers

Matt.

Re: Monster Mash

Demmo — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:08:09 GMT

Hi Matt! :)

it was really nice to meet you on Monster Mash :) On the second day there was an interview - do you know whether it is published anywhere? I`d like to see it :)

Cheers,

Demmo

Monster Mash

mdenton — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:45:03 GMT

Monster Mash is a gallery event showcasing the personal artwork of the members of the UK Creature FX industry. Film and TV monster-making employs a diverse range of artistic talent from concept to realisation and the motley crew who bring to life the fantastic creatures to terrify and amaze you on screen

produce a rich and varied range of personal work in their spare time which is rarely seen in public.

After many years working in creature FX, curator Maria Cork felt that it was high time these works saw the light of day instead of hiding in workshops and living rooms and set about bringing together a showcase which would give them the exposure they richly deserve.

Bringing together fine art, sculpture, multimedia, film and all things in between; Monster Mash is by no means limited to things monstrous. Expect a dazzling array of work ranging from the sensitive to the grotesque, exploring a range of themes as diverse as the artists involved.

No press day is planned but journalists wishing to attend on either Sat 9th or Sun 10th should contact Maria Cork on 07973 471 212 or at mariacork @ googlemail . com to arrange free entry or for any further inquiries.

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Demmo — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:28:44 GMT

hmm.. nice thing if you don`t want to complicate servo controller :) it could be done by code too but if there is a separate device there is no problem ;)

thx for the info

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

mdenton — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:34:57 GMT

Thats pretty much it.. it takes the input, and passes it through to the output. The user programmes a blink point, which the auto-blink stores, and jumpes to at random times. Theres also a servo speed setting and a slew filter on the blink.

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Demmo — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:45:08 GMT

I don`t gey the idea of auto-blink device :-/ what does it do? does it transfer input PWM to output and sometimes randomly changes pulse width in the signal to cause random servo action? or does it do something else?

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

mdenton — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:38:49 GMT

Hi Rob,

The auto-blink requres power and a PWM source. If you wish to rune the Auto-blink without using an R/C type setup, you could use on of my DSC modules, a potentiometer and a power source.

POWER --> DSC --> Auto-Blink --> Servo

POT-----------^

I keep a small stock of these parts, but generally make to order.

cheers,

Matt.

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Rob — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:35:44 GMT

im planning to use the auto blink in my final year degree project. Is it possible to place the auto blink between a power source and a servo and for it to auto run or does it require additional Radio control equipment? also can you confirm the auto blink is still in production? and what the current turn round time is?

many thanks

Rob

Re: Ok, so just how big do these servos come ?!?!

mdenton — Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:42:34 GMT

Hi James,

Great looking spider.. beautiful design and machining!

I think you would need to use linear actuators to bring this beast to life... not impossible! ;)

Is it going up for auction on ebay?

Matt.

Ok, so just how big do these servos come ?!?!

James Sauter — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:24:27 GMT

I wanna play too guys !!!

http://www.jamessauter.com/ebay/spider1.htm

http://www.jamessauter.com/ebay/9.jpg

James

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

mdenton — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:39:12 GMT

Hi Erik,

Yes the black wire is the ground / common.

The regulator on the DSD is an LP2980, which is rated at 50mA. The device uses about 5mA max, so technically you could use the other 45mA. However, I would limit the drain to say 25/30ma.

Matt

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

Erik Groenveld — Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:29:35 GMT

Good! thanks for the info. I'll give it a try. Two more questions:

- I suppose you assume the black wire to be a common ground of the DSD and my sensor cicuitry?

- How much can be safely drained from the red wire? I need it as a reference voltage, that's why. For now I assume that 3.3 V / 1k (POT) = 3.3mA is about the maximum, but I'd rather know the absolute maximum rating.

Best regards

Erik

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

mdenton — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:18:16 GMT

Hi Erik,

I have never tried this before, but the DSD will accept any 0 to 3.3 V signal to control the servo motor, usually derived from a POT. I'm not sure what type of sensor your using, but you should be able to turn your signal into an analogue output to drive the DSD. To do this connect your driving circuit ground to the black lead of the POT input, and your analogue source to the white lead of the POT input.

Let me know how you get on.

Matt.

Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

Erik Groenveld — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:22:57 GMT

Hello, does anyone know if there is a way to control the DSD V1.x with a transistor and a resistor instead of a pot? My application gets a signal from a sensor (instead of from a manual potentiometer) which must control the servo. Any experiences?

Erik

re: repeatable computer control servo

mdenton — Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:00:00 GMT

Hi Simon,

I understand what you are getting at. I use this in my Xpress control systems, it is called filtering. By varying the amount of filtering apllied to the servo output, you can change how hot the motor is, in effect damping it's movement. This gives a much more organic look to the movement. It's also usefull for large sacle animatronic models to prevent them from sudden movement that may damage the mechanism.

Matt.

re: repeatable computer control servo

Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:50:00 GMT

by ramping i mean changing the speed of direction change gradually rather than off/on (left/right) eg: if a finger is being controlled by a servo and its rotating to close the finger, my joystick pushing forward to open the finger will make the servo instantly change direction and open the finger in quite a robotic/stiff way, if i could have a chip to slow the servo to almost a stop before speeding up to the desired change of direction based on speed of my control with a potentiometer a virtual curve is drawn the quicker my change the steeper the curve of slowdown/speedup.
its really difficult to explain.
simon

re: repeatable computer control servo

mdenton — Tue, 5 Jun 2007 10:53:00 GMT

Hi Simon,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a ramping up and down of the speed rather than digital. Could you explain further?

cheers

Matt.

repeatable computer control servo

simon — Sun, 27 May 2007 14:18:00 GMT

hello guy, great site.
i have a question, ive been looking around for a while for a way to control a servos speed and position and ramping direction change relative to speed via control pots and motion recorded by a pc then played back kinda like a guilderfluke sys, but with a ramping up and down rather than digital up and down, is this possible?
thanks simon

A question for the community

BLPPhantom — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:38:00 GMT

Hey there...

I'm new here and in a bit of a dilemma, I'm currently in the early pre-production of a film and am working on character that would serve greatly form animatronic assistance. Previous incarnations of this perticular characters species were done solely with a puppet, and this would be the first time (ever) that the species is being used as a major character with alot of dialog.

The problem i am facing is making minor facial feature movement (eyebrows) and blinks, not to mention jaw movement for the actor performing under the mask.

If anyone out there i able to give me some pointers, or is interested at all in helping with this complex little problem please email me at sheadoshi@yahoo.co.uk or IM me over Yahoo IM as Sheadoshi

Regards

SJ

PS: i am aware this is a very vague post, but i find it hard to put it into words that make sense to myself without sounding like drivel, sorry for the rambleing.

re: Some ideas needed

mdenton — Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:12:00 GMT

Hi Chris

Basically try to fit the larges servos you can into the space that you have available, which is probably not much in an action man body! I would direct drive the arms straight from the servo horn, and cable/link drive the head from a servo lower in the body. If it is just three micro/nano servos ( one for each arm, one for the head ) you may fit them in, but I doubt you will fit the receiver and battery in with them!?

Matt.

Some ideas needed

su122uk — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:25:00 GMT

Hi all,
I am trying to animated a action man type figure for head movement (side to side) and arm movement (up and down). I would like to be able to contain all the workings and electronics inside the body if possible but as of yet I am a little lost where to start.
Could anybody point me in the right direction in as how to tackle the mechanics and then the electronics.

Thanks

Chris

re: Eye-blinking circuit...

mdenton — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 17:50:00 GMT

Ok, So the products section is under development. I have now added the basic R/C type products, including the Auto-Blink module.

re: Eye-blinking circuit...

mdenton — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:52:00 GMT

Hi Hob,

I have not addded the products section to the web site yet, partly because I am in the process of re-designing some products and deciding which ones to discontinue. Unfortunately the Eye-Blink device is one that I am considering discontinuing. I don't know of anywhere else you can buy such a device, as far as I know the device was unique.

I may consider building some to order, but may not stock it as a standard product. The only problem is that I am currently in Australia and will be for a couple of months.

Send me an email, and let me know when you would need the device by and how many.. we may be able to work something out.

Many thanks

Matt.

P.S. If your interested in swaping links, let me know.

Eye-blinking circuit...

Jeffrey Warren Park — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:53:00 GMT

Before your redesign of your website, you had a random eye-blinking circuit with rc over-ride and channel mixing capabilities listed as being available for sale. With your new site, I no longer see it listed anywhere. Is it still available??? I have a few projects coming up, where this circuit could prove invaluable. Your site was the only place I've seen anything like it. If it isn't for sale any more, through you, where can I still find it, or something like it?

Any advice you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
-Hob

re: Air Muscle Actuators

mdenton — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:42:00 GMT

Hi Sandy,

I think if the control side and speed were sorted out in the air muscle design, then there could possible be an application within animatronics. However, the ones that I have seen as you suggest do tend to hunt, and just don't react quick enough.

I will check out the link above when I have time, I'm just about to head up to Brisbane for 12/14 days.. so will be out of touch for a bit.. I think I might use a meaningless plane emotiocon.. the plane! ;)

re: Air Muscle Actuators

sandyw — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:02:00 GMT

Hi Matt. I had a demo too, a couple of years back, and bought one of the
non-servo versions to play with, plus a couple of proportional valves. The valves are interesting when pulled to bits - a car tyre valve and a couple of centimetres of nitinol memory wire. I wonder if you didn't like the demo because of the 'hunting' in the control... I figure that this is because of the time lag in the valves they use, the heating up of the nitinol takes a good old fraction of a second. I already had my own system up and running using a more robust muscle made by german company Festo and different valves - no hunting! I have a love-hate relationship with air-muscle technology though - also played with the Shadow robotics muscle, very similar in construction to the Merlin - basically something like bicycle inner tube inside some plastic
electricians braiding. Friction between these surfaces is a source of wear, so the operational life is not suitable for theme-park use. Festo's 'fluidic muscle' uses a high tech cross-woven composite material and has a longer lifespan - we built a Chistmas animatronic last year which employed over 40 of them, and had several failures over just a few months, alas still don't know exactly why they failed exactly... I've ranted!!! ;) Do you think a muscle with precise control, just like an r/c servo could have a place in film animatronics?

Air Muscle Actuators

mdenton — Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:11:00 GMT

This may be of interest to you sandy?

I had a demo of one of these air muscles. It was really strong and had pretty good proportional control. Unfortunately not good enough for animatronic use, but would probably be pretty usefull for theme park type animatronics?

Check out the link, let me know what you think.

M@

re: Animatronics in Toys

mdenton — Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:43:00 GMT

Err... yes things do break in teh world of film animatronics, its just a case of trying to build things as tough as you can and hope for the best. ;). As for people getting grumpy.. It really depends on who the AD / director is, and how critical the animatronic is in the movie/shot.

I have to say, I have been involved in some bad situations where something has broken down mid-shot, and all eyes are on the animatroncs department... an animatrocity as we like to call it!.. but hey... camera's break down too, and they aren't designed and built in less than 3 months! ;)

re: Animatronics in Toys

sandyw — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:39:00 GMT

Cheers for the useful info re servo death. :) Looks like pneumatics are still the thing then... I agree re the movement qualities of cylinders though, for that reason I have spent the last couple of years developing a budget proportional pneumatics system... I'm pretty well there with it now, and will be trialling it in a 15ft dinosaur shortly - its still expensive though for smaller models as you have to account for a compressor and attendant complications... So sevos are all right for TV/Film? Do you get an unhappy director if something breaks? Have you seen "Team America" ? I love what they did with those puppets...

re: Animatronics in Toys

mdenton — Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:46:00 GMT

Re. Calibration jig, Yes, once you know how many degrees per microsecond the servo's move, the software linearises the servo output.

I have had no experience of servo's wearing out on the hexapod's, but you pay for what you get, and Futaba's are'nt cheap. I have shredded a few gearboxes, but this is usually my own fault. However, within the animatronics use we do kill servo's on a regular basis, but then we do drive them to extremes. It will be interesting to put the new hitec Titatnim servo's through their paces in an animatronic!

As for using servo's within display type charactros, I would think that it would be a bad idea unless they were under very light loads. Pneumatic always seems to win in this application, but the movement is never as nice. :( Maybe the hitec titanium servo's will be up to the job, especially as they have heat sinks which is often the cause of servo death.. (overheating in prolonged use).

re: Animatronics in Toys

sandyw — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 01:36:00 GMT

re Futaba Bum! - re 18DOF Hexapod - Cool! I hadn't taken the time to count them up before... astonishing variations you describe in these cheap servos - ouch - but nice solution having a jig to calibrate 'em! I love stuff like that! (I'm guessing you then linearise them in your control software...?) Have you had any experiences of them wearing out? I've got plenty cheap ones that stutter about now - but never bought a high end beast. I'd love to use r/c servos in visitor attraction type applications - but one client has had very bad experiences with them in the past - even expensive ones apparently - 'cos they have such an arduous life - it would be so nice to use them for facial expression tho if there was a model that would last... er... 8 hours a day, say 8 months of the year - your (or anyone else reading this!) thoughts appreciated! :) (probably would steer clear of operating a mouth though, eyes and grimaces only probably) I got inspired again watching "Team America"!

re: Animatronics in Toys

mdenton — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:22:00 GMT

Its an interesting point about the price of R/C servos. The thing is, you pay for what you get! I found a servo that was identiacal to the Futaba 3101 type, but half the price.. great, I thought it was the answer to an afordable 18DOF hexapod.. but, after buying 18 of them and testing them it was not to be. They were awfull! I calibrate the servo's I use on a special jig so I can see how much movement I get in degrees for the pulse range of 1>2 ms. Most servo's of the same type are within a degree or two of each other which is good enough for this level of robotics, but the cheaper ones were all over the show. Not only were they all reading different, the linearity was terrible. They even had sifferent stroke ranges from center, eg, 60degs in one direction 45degs in the other.. unusable.

I looked in to getting Futaba servo's direct from Japan, but they don't want to know. They have their UK distributor (Ripmax) and they have sole rights for import to the UK.

For now I will continue with the higher end of the market in education/research, nut it would still be nice to do a hobby kit that was economically viable. :)

re: Animatronics in Toys

sandyw — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 04:51:00 GMT

Yes, its just the head, on sale for $119 US :-0 ... *swallow* exactly... how *can* they do it for so little money.. ( I just saw them on ebay.co.uk �100) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6037273558 Would economies of scale be enough to bring the price down to that level I wonder? Robosapien sold 740,000 Xmas 2004, netting $200 million - Wowee will not be short of a bob to invest in tooling. The chimp was designed by a bloke called Greg York, a Hollywood sfx/animatronics designer, so I'm guessing the performance will have been puppeteered and recorded - I also noticed the head drop at the end - as if they hadn't fininshed the software yet - or someone yanked the power cord. (perhaps it went to 'sleep' ;) My heart sank when I first saw it as I'm working on stuff like this myself... I got over it though ;) (just) re Hexapod kits - is there any alternative to using r/c servos... does anyone make a cheap geared motor without electronics? you
could put all of that on a single pcb along with a controller to save dosh. possibly Wowee will have done something similar with the chimp - it doesn't need to look pretty inside. Alternatively... I bet r/c servos have a massive mark-up on the way over from China... they must make 'em for pennies if you can get to the source and buy enough... (Chinese Triad Intregue) Could your cnc machine could mill moulds for injection moulding? plastic is cheap (or was) once you've got that squirty melty thing that makes it into useful stuff ;)

re: Animatronics in Toys

mdenton — Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:05:00 GMT

What is the deal with the Wowee chimp? (See link above) you can buy this... just the head? It seems to be lacking something other than a body ;) In the video clip it kind of takes a nose dive at the end.. is it performed / automated or playback?

Interesting point about the control and manufacturing methods of these animatronic toys.. how do they get such control systems and servos systems at such a cheap cost! it simply amazes me the ingenuity utilised inside some of these toys to bring down the manufacturing costs. This is partly why we have never released our hexapod kits, the cost seemed too high to the average hobbyist. Especially when you can go out and buy a mass produced toy that will interact with you for a fraction of the price!

re: Animatronics in Toys

sandyw — Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:07:00 GMT

Hi Matt, *grin* yes perhaps you're right - hmmnnn, other 'expainations' for things going not quite to plan could include "Look - he's playing at statues now." and "Aw, and now he's having an epileptic fit" ! re mouth I wonder if they are sensing stall current - a modus operandi for cheap animatronic toys I have pried open is simply to whack the motors into
forward or reverse (a challenge to animate to doubt), but to limit the current supplied when they hit the end stop - you can hear the windings whine as they chop the current - and all done with masses of discrete components, through hole, on a single sided paxolin PCB - "Modern museum perfection" and all for a tenner how do they do that. Controller could sense the stall - even if they had no position feedback at all. Come to think of it - why spend money on limit switches, when you can sense the stall current! Only guessing tho... Have you seen Wowee's $120 Chimp -http://www.zippyvideos.com/5675430781836016/alivechimpanzee/

re: Animatronics in Toys

mdenton — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:04:00 GMT

Hi Sandy,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining the site.

Interesting observations on Pleo. I would say that there are pr-programmed sequences for movement that the demonstrators are picking up on.. and I would guess that the control is as you suggest, calibration end points with some kind of encoder/emf feedback.

What is interesting is when it bites the demo guys finger, as it indicates some sort of force feedback . As he moves his finger the head seems to move with it? That would be nice!

I also like the way the demo guy suggestes that Pleo has gone to sleep.. does he mean technically the batteries have died! ;-)

M@

Animatronics in Toys

sandyw — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:01:00 GMT

I just followed Matt's link to Pleo (cheers!) certainly looks more engaging than Aibo, which I'm afraid always leaves me a little cold. It will be interesting to find how deterministic Pleo is. I wonder if thay are blending between sections of stored animation/puppeteering? Does anyone know? Is that what they do with Aibo? Certainly the Pleo demonstrators seem able to identify what he is doing before it looks too obvious - as if they recognise the start of each particular animation sequence. What I found really interesting is the calibration "stretch" when he wakes up... as if they don't have full positional feedback from the actuators (likely at the price) - yet they have made it look pretty "servo" like. Top marks for $200! I'm wondering if they are using the old trick of counting back emf spikes to keep track of motor revolutions and a simple end stop or centre switch for reference... Anyone taken one apart yet?

Welcome

mdenton — Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:45:00 GMT

Welcome to micromagic systems forum.

This section is for discussing Animatronics.

Animatronics

*** NEW FORUM ***

Re: Monster Mash

Re: Monster Mash

Re: Monster Mash

Monster Mash

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Re: Ok, so just how big do these servos come ?!?!

Ok, so just how big do these servos come ?!?!

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

Re: Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

Direct Servo Driver with Transistor instead of Pot

re: repeatable computer control servo

re: repeatable computer control servo

re: repeatable computer control servo

repeatable computer control servo

A question for the community

re: Some ideas needed

Some ideas needed

re: Eye-blinking circuit...

re: Eye-blinking circuit...

Eye-blinking circuit...

re: Air Muscle Actuators

re: Air Muscle Actuators

Air Muscle Actuators

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

re: Animatronics in Toys

Animatronics in Toys

Welcome

* NEW FORUM *